There’s “oh I remembered this slightly differently than it happened” and “I’m completely making up lies to fit an argument out of nowhere” and you are 100% doing the second. I personally would have enjoyed the alternate ending more. I don't think that ending would work because it would take us back to square one as if all the growth and change the character has gone throughout the film never happened or it was all faked. Derek kills all three gang members and is sentenced to three years in jail. Reddit users have been discussing the most disturbing scenes in movie history this week, ... Tony Kaye’s American History X is a tough film to watch at the best of times. The movie would end on a bitter, darker note: you can't change who you are. We see the sink filled with hair and an electric razor next to it. During a conversation with Prog Magazine, original Yes keyboardist Tony Kaye looked back on his time in the band and parting ways with the guys in 1971. And then on came Steve and Steve didn’t have a … ‘American History X’ is one of them. I read to the word "grim" and did not read the rest to give an answer "yes". American History Xstars Edward Norton as Derek who is influenced by skinheads upon the death of his father when he is killed during a drive-by shooting. The original Tony Kaye-directed video for “Runaway Train” famously featured real-life footage of missing children in the hopes that it might lead to their discovery. comments. He knows at that point that what he was doing was wrong, but there is one final punch to the gut he must receive for having left his mark on the world. But no good deed goes unpunished as Marvel used this incident to paint a negative picture of Norton and to justify his firing after Incredible Hulk. Share to Tumblr. Peter Banks, Tony Kaye, Chris Squire, Bill Bruford, and Jon Anderson of Yes Gilles Petard/Redferns Peter Banks , best known as the original guitarist of Yes , … Edward Norton was the one that did the final cut of the movie after the director failed to deliver anything for 9-12 months after due date. On the surface, this is a movie about the neo-Nazi movement attributed to Skinheads in our country. It was too real in the film. 'The original film ends after Danny (Edward Furlong) is shot by a black student (whose brother was killed by Derek (Edward Norton) earlier in the film). It was an embellishment of reality and made skinheads look cooler and smarter than they were. I just watched 25th Hour and fight club again recently and he was perfect in those parts. Tony Kaye’s 2011 indie drama Detachment about teachers in an inner city school is one of the worst movies I have ever paid to watch. The idea that Derek would go through that change in prison and then just give it up again in the end feels like a cheap gimmick. Throughout the entire movie, he's not a dumb guy. Classic Yes, right? The ending that Tony Kaye wanted the film to have left you on a very different note to the version that was released. I read this as the alternate ending to Project X and it fucked my mind. I'm a big fan of Edward Norton, but I can also acknowledge that he seems too self serious about showbiz. Elections 2018: Tony Kaye Sets a Stuntwoman on Fire to Get Out the Vote in Texas -- Watch 'American History X' Director Tony Kaye Is Casting an Artificial Intelligent Robot to … Reddit. view in app. The Anthony E. Kaye Memorial Essay Award honors Tony Kaye (1962-2017), an innovative scholar of slavery at Penn State University and the National Humanities Center. Tony Kaye Quick Links News ... Tony Kaye's long-gestating Lake of Fire is the work of a man obsessed. If they did literally put it in his contract and then violated that contract, it would make Marvel the bad guy but then there were anonymous rumors that Norton was "problematic" and so everyone said he was to blame. Tony Kaye’s cut of American History X is most likely total shit. I prefer the ambiguity too, as I like to think Derek can break that chain of hatred and move on as that's the more defiant path. Share to Reddit. If not for Norton, we would have had a completely different movie to see and it was baddd. American History X (Tony Kaye) Trainspotting (Danny Boyle) Magnolia (P.T. Share to Popcorn Maker. Everything that happens at the fictional high school in Tony Kaye’s Detachment could conceivably happen at a high school anywhere in America on any given day: A boy beats a helpless animal to death while classmates look on, a girl writes an essay about wanting to die, various students challenge teachers in ways that would make 99 percent of the population turn tail and run for the door. I know that among Yes fans, Rick is da man. I can't believe I've never heard of this. Instead, the happy duo helps others solve their existential issues, the kind that keep you up at night, wondering what it all means. He started to get cocky and want 20mil for every movie. The ending is grim enough while saying the same thing: violence is cyclical and there are unforeseeable repercussions. What’s the point of even discussing stuff like this if facts don’t matter at all? Pretty much nailed it. In Kaye's version, after this we are taken to a scene in the family apartment where the detectives are trying to comfort Danny's grieving mother and sister. Derek's younger brother Daniel (Edward Furlong) starts to mimick his brother's actions and soon finds himself in trouble at school where he writes a paper in support of Hitler. I think he'd be a very different character if he COULD go back. EXCLUSIVE: Arthur Sarkissian and writer-director Tony Kaye are teaming to bring the story of Peg Entwistle to light as a movie. The two words “curb stomp” will likely cause a shudder in anybody who has ever seen Tony Kaye’s incendiary 1998 crime drama American History X, as it did for the Reddit … This line-up, which was eventually nicknamed "Yes West", recorded 90125 and Big … 'The original film ends after Danny (Edward Furlong) is shot by a black student (whose brother was killed by Derek (Edward Norton) earlier in the film). I was going to post a similar sentiment but you articulated it much more clearly than I would have. Nicky Kaye said it … Released in late 1998 and directed by Tony Kaye from David McKenna’s script, “American History X” is an urban drama about a former neo-Nazi leader, Derek Vinyard (Edward Norton), who tries to prevent his younger brother, Danny (Edward Furlong), from taking the same path of hate he did. I think that change he has after prison cant be corrupted just because I think he would recognize at this point in the movie that "going back to his old ways" doesn't solve anything and that he's too experienced and smart to think being that person again was a resolution. You are simplifying this, cite sources, please. Not that there is some hidden cut out there where Norton is a side character. Hard to say which I prefer. I've read about this ending before and the tone of it is all wrong for the movie to me. That debate he has with the father in law, his mother and sister at the dinner table, he actually brings up a lot of well thought-out and valid points and he almost seems much more objective than his family who seems more emotionally driven on their side of the debate. Directed by Tony Kaye and written by David McKenna, this crime drama follows a former neo-nazi skinhead, who after being released from jail, attempts to prevent his younger brother from going down the same path that he did. This pathetic stunt should honestly get you banned from the subreddit for a week. He said he wrote a more character-centric movie, and they cut it down significantly to focus on more of a CGI-heavy action film. Great answer, I agree - I got the feeling that Derek would take the responsibility for Danny's death on himself. Here's an overview of the differences (SPOILERS) taken from a recent extended blog post on the subject. Here's an overview of the differences (SPOILERS) taken from a recent extended blog post on the subject. Ruffalo was in better films with better scripts, but his character is often seen as a comedic side kick. The band reformed in 1983 with a new lineup featuring Squire, White, South African guitarist Trevor Rabin, and the return of Jon Anderson on vocals and Tony Kaye on keyboards. A scan revealed two large grade 4 glioblastomas and another six smaller tumours. The movie's conclusion is supposed to leave Derek punished for his sins one final time. The trailer looked good, I rented it VOD and holy moly what a total shit show. You're absolutely right but it makes sense how they could have written the alternate ending. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, News & Discussion about Major Motion Pictures, Press J to jump to the feed. ... Tony Kaye’s American History X is a tough film to watch at the best of times. Follow Tony Kaye. If the film title African History Y sounds like a familiar knock-off, it should.Back in 1998, Tony Kaye created a marvel of a movie wrapped in a grueling sociopolitical statement called American History X. Also, I always thought that he felt guilt more than anger for Danny's death. If they thought of approaching it as more of a social statement about a cycle of violence and hate rather than a picture about self awareness and changing the cycle while living with your mistakes. The guy is super, duper strange, erratic and terribly mean. He will have to go through life knowing he didn't turn it around in time to save his brother. ... reddit. But tacking on an ending of him reverting to his evil ways is Saturday morning cartoon quality writing. The turning point in Tony Kaye's new movie, "Detachment" -- which, despite many nameable flaws, is a wrenching and powerful achievement -- … ... Tony Kaye - keyboards Trevor Rabin - guitars and vocals Chris Squire - bass and vocals Alan White - percussion Billy Sherwood - guitars and vocals. Tony Kaye. I like to think that Derek has a very clear point where he's "evolved". Anderson) The Truman Show (Peter Weir) Goodfellas (Martin Scorsese) The Lion King (Roger Allers) Reservoir Dogs (Quentin Tarantino) A Simple Plan (Sam Raimi) Heat (Michael Mann) The Silence of the Lambs (Jonathan Demme) The Usual Suspects (Bryan Singer) This video doesn't delve into the craziness that was the first cut by the director. I just learned the skinhead they based this movie on is younger than me. I wouldn't expect this to ever be release, however, knowing Tony Kaye's history and having assisted him personally on a job a few years ago. You completely rob the film of its impact because you turn Derek into a character whose transformation in prison no longer mattered. Marvel dumped Norton for how they worked with him on Incredible Hulk, how can you honestly just lie blatantly to everyone and say that Marvel “used this incident” to justify it at all? But that's the price you pay to get awesome performances. • Tony Kaye – American History X, 1998 • Noah Baumbach – Highball, 1997 • Tomas Alfredson – The Snowman, 2017 • Kevin Reynolds – Waterworld, 1995 • Joel Schumacher – Batman and Robin, 1997 • Dennis Hopper – Catchfire, 1990 • Steven Soderbergh – The Underneath, 1995 • Jerry Lewis – The Day The Clown Cried,1972 They came on and Tony Kaye was probably the only one I’d say was standard rock band material when he sat at his Hammond organ. And yeah I could get some burst of rage, seeking revenge and such, partly undoing what he's learned, but not the embracing again the whole neonazi thing, not after all that had happened with his former group, it wouldn't make sense I think. Fark. He isn't rewarded. While in … I think the alternate ending would have have worked with Davina shaving her head and getting a gun. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Share via email. Email. After a basketball game with a rival gang, two members of that gang attempt to steal Derek's truck. And people still believe that to this day. The original ending is fine the way it is. It's very much like a modern Greek tragedy in this way, and for that feeling to be consistent, you have to imagine Derek's final point of development in his arc is knowing he was wrong but having been too late to do anything about it. Tony’s contributions helped to … Read More Read More Tony Kaye on His Years With Yes, David Bowie, and Badfinger The keyboardist is a founding member of Yes and backed Bowie on the legendary ‘Station to Station’ tour The film ends on a shot of Derek's sick smile, the same smile we saw when he was arrested for his murders earlier in the film.'. Email. Thanks! Tony was an active member of the Society of Civil War Historians and one of the founding editors of the Journal of the Civil War Era. There are few films that have the ability to shock you and break your heart. So if there had to be a 'wrapping-up ending' I reckon it would be more realistic if he committed suicide or went into a downward spiral. Hulk gets punchlines rather than representing a sincere struggle with uncontrollable rage. We use cookies on our websites for a number of purposes, including analytics and performance, functionality and advertising. The two words “curb stomp” will likely cause a shudder in anybody who has ever seen Tony Kaye’s incendiary 1998 crime drama American History X, as it did for the Reddit … Has Derek reformed enough not to go back to his old ways, or do you think it's more realistic that he goes back to it? He ceases to be sympathetic, the viewer ceases to feel bad for him, and the message of the film gives way to muddled anarchy. He doesn't change back to hate because that's what got him there in the first place, but he doesn't have anything to show for his transformation either. Norton claims he negotiated for story control with The Incredible Hulk which they guaranteed in his contract and then they went back on. Like an overweight student (Betty Kaye, daughter of the director, Tony Kaye) unable to cope with abuse, Henry wants to run away. I really felt like he was struggling with rage. Addeddate 2021-02-15 13:32:28 Identifier AMERICAN HISTORY X (1998) was slated to be a romantic comedy about a history professor, but the script was completely rewritten when director Tony Kaye noticed star … A husband-and-wife team play detective, but not in the traditional sense. What do you think of this ending? The camera then pans away and cuts to a scene in the bathroom. I'm not sure - I think on watching the original I left thinking that Derek had REALLY reformed, so believed that he had learned too much to back to it. I will say that while The Incredible Hulk is one of the weaker films in the MCU (they hadn't found their groove yet) I prefer Norton's take on Banner. Tony Kaye, 53, learned he had an aggressive form of brain cancer at the end of last year. Reddit users have been discussing the most disturbing scenes in movie history this week, serving up a variety of examples — from straight-up horror to unexpectedly depraved family films and dark moments in otherwise perfectly palatable works. Its that simple, nothing wrong with it he just lost to negotiation. Wow. This movie was fiction. There is just no movie. It's been at least 10 years since I've last seen it. The truth is there is Norton's cut or no movie. Norton wanted money and some creative control. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. here's a bit of a list of reported problems. He had the hair, the shiny cape, the 11 boards, the chops! I believed him reforming his ways to the extent that I wouldn't have believed him going back. Comment. The ending that Tony Kaye wanted the film to have left you on a very different note to the version that was released. Reddit. The weird-ass story of Tony Kaye, director of ... - reddit.com He agreed to play Moog and Mellotron(Tony refused). I remember him chewing out an assistant director on set, at which point everyone just went quiet as it … I think the message would, ultimately, remain the same. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, News & Discussion about Major Motion Pictures, Press J to jump to the feed. Real skinheads were nothing like this. Very well-written response. I read Jon Ronson's piece on this years before. On June 9th, CoSigned indie pop outfit London Grammar will issue their latest album, Truth Is A Beautiful Thing.Their second full-length following 2013’s If You Wait, it’s being teased today with not one, but two music videos for single “Oh Woman Oh Man”.. Kaye isn't the only to report problematic working relationships with Norton, though, no? I felt the tension of him being on the run. Sharon Stone is set to star in the thriller Attachment, directed by Tony Kaye (American History X) from a script by Chris Denham. Derek is stood there with his head shaved - he stares in the mirror and looks at the swastika on his chest, before pulling out a pistol. He was also at the meeting with the Monk and Rabbi. Disney may not be doing a live-action remake of WALL-E—not yet, anyway—but provocateur filmmaker Share to Pinterest. I also need to rewatch AHX. They would have had to have filmed his reformation differently. 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